Sunday, October 14, 2007

Why PayScale is Better than Boeing

A couple of months ago, I asked a friend if they wanted to come work for PayScale. They responded: "How do you think working at PayScale is compared to working at Boeing?" Well, I answered question... and decided that I liked my response enough to post it.

PayScale

Vs.

Boeing

Our office is in Pioneer Square

Their offices are in Renton, or Everett, or Auburn, or Bellevue, or BFI. You don’t get to decide where you’ll be, and you will be expected to drive between the places

For lunch, you have the option to go one of several cheap and delicious establishments. Most notably is the world famous Salumi. But don’t forget about Tat’s Deli, Bakeman’s, The New Orleans, and many others.

Boeing’s lunch cafĂ©. You’ll be able to choose from rubbery meat, an iceberg-lettuce salad bar, or a Snapple. Nothing delicious; everything overpriced.

You’ll be working on stuff that people actually see, use and find helpful in life

You’ll be working on an internal system to track other internal systems so that “upper management” can complain that we have too many internal systems.

You’re 1 out of 55

You’re 1 out of 155,000

You get lots of stock options

You get ShareValue Trust (which is pretty damn sweet)

You don’t like how something is going? Go talk to the CEO, or the VP of Engineering… their offices are 20 feet away and they’re always willing to listen

You don’t like how something is going? Go talk to your manager, who will talk to his manager, who will talk to his/her colleague, who will talk to one of their employees, who is the person in charge of the project you’re working on… and maybe things can change.

You have a good idea how we can make money? Sweet… we’ll put it into the dev cycle.

You have a good idea? Too bad, the Chairman’s Innovation Initiative got shut down. Your manager’s budget is already too overbooked. Their manager’s budget isn’t doing any better. While the company is on one of the strongest up-swings it’s ever had… every group there is having to cut budget.

Want to go to a conference? Sweet, that sounds like a good idea. Take good notes because this conference looks really good

Um… yeah. Submit your request to the Conference Attendance Core Team for approval. While the CACT recognizes that this conference looks good, there is not enough time to get all the necessary approvals for your request. Plus, do you really want to use Travel Manager?

Remember: A lot of people love working for Boeing; it just wasn't the place for me. There are lots of reasons to work for Boeing, they're just documented elsewhere in this blog.

14 comments:

Free Radical said...

Hmmm … I don’t know, I think it’s apples and oranges here, at least a bit? And I think I would have fleshed out a few of those fields on the Boeing side a bit. For example: Boeing’s office aren’t just in Puget Sound. And travel between sites is not required as you state, and virtual meetings are a common and effective workaround when it comes to geographical separation. •• For lunch locations? You make it sound like The Boeing Company is on an island somewhere! (lol) … it’s not like there aren’t plentiful, diverse eateries around the various sites, and besides I LIKE the cafeteria food at our building, I eat there every day (by choice). •• On our products and services, I’d answer the same for Boeing as you answered for Payscale, actually. •• On the “complaint department” thing, it’s a challenge no matter how big you are to make your views known, but I have complained and made my views known to not only my manager, but also our VP and our new CIO, and have been both heard and respected. There’s a guy in my group who has actually carried on a few exchanges with our CEO, and has had results there, too! •• I AM nodding to your point on suggestions, to a degree. I think your put there represents the localized perspective you had at the time, but I’d have to agree that getting things in the suggestion box doesn’t always yield immediate fruit in a large, global corporation. But, it does happen. And, I know that if the idea(s) I have aren’t being heard, there are other channels (not just one). I’m doing that now, actually, with regard to an external marketing strategy for our recruiting program … I don’t think the leader of that program heard me when I presented my ideas, so guess what? I’m taking it to the next step up. And, I know Ill be heard, respected and valued. Even in a company of 154,999 other Boeing employees! •• Your last point on conferences? Well, to THAT one I can only say “amen” … it seems that if you wear a suit you can name your ticket, but if you’re in the muddy trenches like I am, you have to sell your soul for the chance. Hmmm … you know, I think Ill drop that one in the suggestion box! ;)

Margo said...

Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree with some of these also. I did get to choose where I work at Boeing (both times), and I prefer each of them to working downtown, because I don't have to fight traffic to get in and out of Seattle (and I can and do ride my bike to work). As your other commenter noted, we don't work on an island - actually, I normally bring my lunch to work, so the options available aren't that relevant, but we have a Jamba Juice, a bubble tea establishment, and some delicious restaurants within a couple miles of my building. My biggest disagreement is with your comment that PayScale makes things people see and that Boeing doesn't - maybe your job didn't have you working on external products, but I've worked on a stealth bomber and a battle-changing subhunter. Plus, I watched the Space Shuttle launch today, and I know how much work Boeing has put into parts for that. My group also goes to lots of conferences - two girls in my group went to Vegas for a week a month ago and another is going to Hawaii later this month. I'm sure there are pros and cons to big and small companies, but a lot of those depend on your particular job and preferences.

Anonymous said...

Hey, I have a very practical, timely question: I work at Boeing and have a question to anyone who may know how "things work." I interviewed for a new job with a promotion in pay grade and was offered a new salary that I thought was too low. Spoke to HR and she said the offer is firm. I declined the job offer and indicated on the electronic form the reason was "salary." What I want to know is - do you HAVE to decline the offer and send everyone into the multi-week process to get more salary approved or can the local management make a salary increase on the spot? I wonder if I will get a second offer or not; I am fine either way, but the process seems so hopelessly slow and bureaucratic. And Boeing is so chintzy with everything most of the time, I am thinking they would rather not promote a stud like me than spend a couple thousand dollars more.

Anonymous said...

Yes, you have to decline an offer at Boeing in order to "maybe" get to negotiate. However, I looked around for upward movement while internal...and I delined 3 different jobs after many weeks of interviewing and waiting on HR. All 3 were dead upon decline! You have to realize that HR is so removed from the hiring management that there is very little the manager can do. HR is a major barrier for Boeing when it comes to attracting strong employment. HR knows little to none about the candidates, so they have only the little computer program that goes through your years experience and education and spits out your salary based upon what others (often times with less experience and education) in that group are taking home. Good luck, but don't hold your breath. You want a pay increase?? Use Boeing to get a good slice of that FREE education pie! Then get out to actually use it.

Anonymous said...

thanks anonymous #2 on comments on declining offers at Boeing. I think you are right on target, matches what I am experiencing and sensing. Manager has no flexibility whatsoever.

Lindi said...

I am suprised that Boeing can even build an airplane. I didnt get to pick my location so I'm stuck way out in Everett...land of mullets and trans ams. My boss and org. I'm in all think business casual is black jeans, very tight of course so the fupa hangs over. The cafeteria serves nothing but greasy breakfast food and donuts. After a year of emailing the cafe manager I got them to put soup out and healthy alternatives to butter....
My experience with HR is don't bother, they tell you they have a great open door policy, they forgot to mention it hits you in the back when you walk out. Boeing is a great place to get free education, and medical benefits. No one really works hard, if they do its more like almost medium pace for their age group. It appears what younger interns, and young adults can do in two hours it will take them bout 8 or 9, with alot of talk of how busy they are. Lots of cake breaks or donuts. I took a count of the average cake consumption in a month and figured out that for everyweek, there were 8 cakes brought in and 10 boxes of donuts.
Then everyone rushes to the area the cake is in, and eat a huge slice and talk about how they need to work out and why they weigh so much....? I made the mistake of suggesting not eating the cake....I'm refered to as the skinny bitch now...A definite upgrade from being the office whore because I wore a skirt one day. My black jeans and birckenstocks must of been dirty....

Lindi said...

Hey your cafe had snapple, Im jealous, we have sodas for like 2.00's
Good news they revised travel manager for ease of use. Now its so cluttered among the technoloically unadvanced that they cant even find it online to use it and if they do they screw it up so they just dont bother now. They had to hire someone to become the expense report focal...
When Im at boeing I feel like ive time warped back 50 years. My group is still wondering how to use cell phones and this whole new concept of VOIP telephones....we have meetings about it constantly..

Anonymous said...

Share Value Trust? It's paid out like only 3 times and the stock has to be over $87 next year for the final time period. It was put in place for one reason only - it tied up $1,000,000,000 in Boeing stock at a time the Board believed they could be a target of a takeover.

Adam said...

Are you complaining about it?

PrettyThings said...

I have to say: HATE IT. They allow one person in my group to telecommute from across the country, but will the same managers allow me to that? Of course not! I only wanted to keep the job because I am moving for my husband. After this happened, I am glad to be leaving soon.

PrettyThings said...

Also, I HAVE had to travel between sites before. And over half the Boeing population is incapable of understanding that you CAN operate just as effectively over a telecon/webex as you can in person.

Anonymous said...

WOW - Boeing is a great place to work...what I have noticed working here is that some people get spoiled and expect everthing...It is annoying to read cry babies pour there hearts out to the internet...don't work at Boeing if you don't want to...BAM

Anonymous said...

Seriously, noone's twisting your arm. It's a great company that employs alot of people. Not everyone can be a business owner or do whatever they want. We're in a financial crisis, and these people are worried about their stock options and whether they have a kabob palace at the next corner. I'm glad I can put bread on the table and provide insurance for my family...

Chris said...

Pick and choose where you live and all is fine. I live in Harbour Pointe, a fairly well-established and upscale neighborhood 4 miles from the plant in Mukilteo. Mukilteo was rated #10 out of 100 best places to live in CNN Money 2011. I've been down to Renton and I would say that it is much nicer working in Everett (although I would choose to live elsewhere). Besides, instead you'll find people like me.... clean cut and drives an imported luxury sports car. ;)